"T3" > wrote in message
m...
> Given the USA's dependence on space based assets for communication,
control
> as well as surveillance and targeting not to mention what else we are not
> aware of (black ops), it would seem that the Chinese have robust projects
to
> deny the USA space at a time of its choosing. Recent reports indicate they
> (Chicoms) are hiding a major part their defense spending, it would appear
> they have plan. Is it Taiwan or maybe "something" larger?
>
>
> T3
> Its paranoia, on both sides, nothing more-nothing less.
China needs us and we need China. Neither can afford
a stand off at this time, but yet the game must go on.
Mike
>
> http://www.space.com/news/china_dod_030801.html
> http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/chinadefense000306.html
>
>
>

"Mike Keown" > wrote in message >...
> "T3" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Given the USA's dependence on space based assets for communication,
> control
> > as well as surveillance and targeting not to mention what else we are not
> > aware of (black ops), it would seem that the Chinese have robust projects
> to
> > deny the USA space at a time of its choosing. Recent reports indicate they
> > (Chicoms) are hiding a major part their defense spending, it would appear
> > they have plan. Is it Taiwan or maybe "something" larger?
> >
> >
> > T3
> > Its paranoia, on both sides, nothing more-nothing less.

> China needs us and we need China. Neither can afford
> a stand off at this time, but yet the game must go on.
> Mike

Demographic 'changes' in the US will eventually lead to the ascendence
of Chinese supremacy. They have the patience to wait while their
technological and manufacturing prowess perfects itself and watch
while the US implodes in problems of its own making Ala California.
Yep, China needs the US... for now.

On 15 Aug 2003 05:37:43 GMT, (Chris Mark) wrote:

> If you mean to say ethnic or racial changes in US population, that has
>been going on since before the Revolution and the society has long had
>effective mechanisms in place to integrate newcomers.

True, but we seem to be taking the stance now that we *don't*
integrate newcomers, but instead do our best to elevate them (if
that's the right verb) to the status of a specially-aggrieved
minority. This is a huge change over my childhood, when the teacher
made fun of me in class because I pronounced "pen" as if it were
spelled "pin". "You sound like you just came over from the Old Sod."
(That's Ireland, in case your knowledge of ethnic jibes has been
weakened in the current wash of racial gentility.) I became a Yankee
as fast as I could, which was pretty fast.

Being an American is like riding a unicycle. You are always on the
cusp of a remarkable journey, the outcome of which you can't possibly
know. Just because you haven't fallen off yet doesn't mean that it
can't happen. But if you get off the unicycle you stop being an
American.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"The Enlightenment" > wrote in message
om...
> while the US implodes in problems of its own making Ala California.

China has no problems?

> Yep, China needs the US... for now.

Just as we need China...for now.

Vaughn

>From: Cub Driver

>we seem to be taking the stance now that we *don't*
>integrate newcomers, but instead do our best to elevate them (if
>that's the right verb) to the status of a specially-aggrieved
>minority.

True, if you define "we" as certain segments of the educational/political
class. But in the great teeming mass of the population, it doesn't seem to
have much significant effect, "significant effect" being defined as, among
other things, exogamy rates (marrying outside your ethnic group) which have
continuously been on the rise through the century. What is particularly
interesting is how smoothly--and frequently-- "Hispanic" immigrants' children
engage in exogamy. There is no evidence of permanent ethnic blocs forming,
other than the standard types we have had all along. The big exception is
blacks, which still have low (but increasing) exogamy rates an order of
magnitude below other ethnic group exogamy rates.
What's interesting in this is that it points to how little influence official
policies have on the evolution of the "real" American civilization erupting ad
hoc from the population.

> This is a huge change over my childhood, when the teacher
>made fun of me in class because I pronounced "pen" as if it were
>spelled "pin". "You sound like you just came over from the Old Sod."

I really don't see it as a negative if today's teachers don't ridicule their
students for their ethnicity.

>(That's Ireland, in case your knowledge of ethnic jibes has been
>weakened in the current wash of racial gentility.)

Well, I grew up in Montana, where the only "ethnics" I was aware of were
Indians and Mormons. We got along, although our grandparents had killed each
other with skill and enthusiasm.

> I became a Yankee
>as fast as I could, which was pretty fast.

Did you become a yankee because you were ridiculed by your teacher or because
the greater society opened up to you? No matter how much your teacher
ridiculed you, had society closed its doors to you, with "No Irish Need Apply"
codified into law, might you not have retreated into your ethnic identity and
made no effort to assimilate?

>Being an American is like riding a unicycle.

So you are saying Americans are circus clowns? :) (couldn't resist)


>You are always on the
>cusp of a remarkable journey, the outcome of which you can't possibly
>know. Just because you haven't fallen off yet doesn't mean that it
>can't happen. But if you get off the unicycle you stop being an
>American.

I just don't see American identity as being that fragile. It appears to me to
be enormously powerful and attractive. Ben Wattenberg, examining statistical
population data from the century has remarked that the clearest fact these data
make clear is the "de-otherization" of America. Wattenberg is, of course, a
real Democrat from the days when Democrats were optimistic progressives rather
than today's anxiety ridden Luddites. See such works of his as "The Good News
is the Bad News is Wrong," "The First Universal Nation," and "The Real
Majority" among others.



Chris Mark

China is making all this noise in order to keep things from coming
apart in China.

If anyone really looked, China has a greater poverty problem than
they did when Mao took over. There are something like 250 million
illegal migrant workers wandering around China working day labor jobs.
They are illegal because in China you cannot leave your village with out
government permission. In the really rural areas the only people who can
leave are volunteers for the Army ( Which is cutting its manpower, because
even China realizes that technology as made quality more important
than quanity). The illegal day laborers who just walk away from the rural
villages can get neither schooling for their children, hospitals for the sick
and injured or housing. It is not uncommon for the day laborers on
construction to live in the very buildings they are constructing.
This year, 66-75% of the recent college graduates can't find jobs, Labor
Strikes, (Yes I said strikes) have severely impacted their oil. gas and coal
industries in the delivering of energy.

Farmers in the villages are living on the edge of starvation because
China (as Part of WTO ) can buy rice cheaper from the Mississippi
Delta and California than they can raise it themselves. Remember SARS??
This was caused by the small farmers trying to maximize their income
by raising chickens, ducks and pigs on to small of plots where diseases
can be passed from birds to pigs and then on to humans. ( How do you
explain all the various flu strains (which are basically avian diseases) come
from china.

There is a lot of pressure for the development of a multi party government
as a lot of people in the rural areas the more economic developed south
are finding that the communist party does not represent their interests any
more.
The communist party is holding on to power by a thread, ( A heavily armed
thread but a thread just the same) The only organization the communists
can rely on is the army. They have lost control of the banking and the labor
markets. With the integration of their banking system with the world financial
systems It is doubtful that they could even seize the banks any more. Right
now some of the provincial governors are telling the big bosses in Beijing to
pound sand and are getting away with it.

Some knowledgeable people are saying China will probably implode in the
next 20 years.

J.D.

Mike Keown wrote:

> "T3" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Given the USA's dependence on space based assets for communication,
> control
> > as well as surveillance and targeting not to mention what else we are not
> > aware of (black ops), it would seem that the Chinese have robust projects
> to
> > deny the USA space at a time of its choosing. Recent reports indicate they
> > (Chicoms) are hiding a major part their defense spending, it would appear
> > they have plan. Is it Taiwan or maybe "something" larger?
> >
> >
> > T3
> > Its paranoia, on both sides, nothing more-nothing less.
> China needs us and we need China. Neither can afford
> a stand off at this time, but yet the game must go on.
> Mike
> >
> > http://www.space.com/news/china_dod_030801.html
> > http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/chinadefense000306.html
> >
> >
> >

Jim Dauven > wrote in message
...
> China is making all this noise in order to keep things from coming
> apart in China.
>
> If anyone really looked, China has a greater poverty problem than
> they did when Mao took over. There are something like 250 million
> illegal migrant workers wandering around China working day labor jobs.
> They are illegal because in China you cannot leave your village with out
> government permission. In the really rural areas the only people who can
> leave are volunteers for the Army ( Which is cutting its manpower, because
> even China realizes that technology as made quality more important
> than quanity). The illegal day laborers who just walk away from the rural
> villages can get neither schooling for their children, hospitals for the
sick
> and injured or housing. It is not uncommon for the day laborers on
> construction to live in the very buildings they are constructing.
> This year, 66-75% of the recent college graduates can't find jobs, Labor
> Strikes, (Yes I said strikes) have severely impacted their oil. gas and
coal
> industries in the delivering of energy.
>
> Farmers in the villages are living on the edge of starvation because
> China (as Part of WTO ) can buy rice cheaper from the Mississippi
> Delta and California than they can raise it themselves. Remember SARS??
> This was caused by the small farmers trying to maximize their income
> by raising chickens, ducks and pigs on to small of plots where diseases
> can be passed from birds to pigs and then on to humans. ( How do you
> explain all the various flu strains (which are basically avian diseases)
come
> from china.
>
> There is a lot of pressure for the development of a multi party government
> as a lot of people in the rural areas the more economic developed south
> are finding that the communist party does not represent their interests
any
> more.
> The communist party is holding on to power by a thread, ( A heavily armed
> thread but a thread just the same) The only organization the communists
> can rely on is the army. They have lost control of the banking and the
labor
> markets. With the integration of their banking system with the world
financial
> systems It is doubtful that they could even seize the banks any more.
Right
> now some of the provincial governors are telling the big bosses in Beijing
to
> pound sand and are getting away with it.
>
> Some knowledgeable people are saying China will probably implode in the
> next 20 years.
>
> J.D.
>
> Mike Keown wrote:
>
> > "T3" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > > Given the USA's dependence on space based assets for communication,
> > control
> > > as well as surveillance and targeting not to mention what else we are
not
> > > aware of (black ops), it would seem that the Chinese have robust
projects
> > to
> > > deny the USA space at a time of its choosing. Recent reports indicate
they
> > > (Chicoms) are hiding a major part their defense spending, it would
appear
> > > they have plan. Is it Taiwan or maybe "something" larger?
> > >
> > >
> > > T3
> > > Its paranoia, on both sides, nothing more-nothing less.
> > China needs us and we need China. Neither can afford
> > a stand off at this time, but yet the game must go on.
> > Mike
> > >
> > > http://www.space.com/news/china_dod_030801.html
> > > http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/chinadefense000306.html
> > >

Furthwer, didn't they have to put down a riot or 2 in the predominately
muslim regions? Pat

>Farmers in the villages are living on the edge of starvation because
>China (as Part of WTO ) can buy rice cheaper from the Mississippi
>Delta and California than they can raise it themselves.


'splain this one to me. How can a farmer farming rice starve?

And, honestly ... I guess it's not impossible, but with shipping costs and all
I find it hard to believe that US rice is cheaper than locally produced rice.
It's possible, but ...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~

Keeper of the Humour List at http://members.aol.com/PirateJohn/pirate1.html

"Mother, mother ocean... I have heard your call" - Jimmy Buffett, A Pirate
Looks At Forty.

"PirateJohn" > wrote in message
...
> >Farmers in the villages are living on the edge of starvation because
> >China (as Part of WTO ) can buy rice cheaper from the Mississippi
> >Delta and California than they can raise it themselves.
>
>
> 'splain this one to me. How can a farmer farming rice starve?
>
> And, honestly ... I guess it's not impossible, but with shipping costs and
all
> I find it hard to believe that US rice is cheaper than locally produced
rice.
> It's possible, but ...

It is a quality issue.